Q.Who drove, you or Petra?
A. Umm, I drove. I think I had the Honda Civic.
Q. You had the Civic did you?
A. Yeah.
Q. Left the Volvo at home?
A. Yeah, left Petra's car at home, yeah.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Left, the Volvo wasn't, I didn't use the Volvo very much, once I sold the boat, the boat. You see that's how I got, I had an inflatable Zodiac. Did you hear, have you heard. And that's how I paid for my AR15s 'cos I got about four, a bit over four thousand dollars for my.
Q. So.
A. ... (inaudible) ... motor because it's brand, it's brand new and I paid nearly nine thousand for it, and it was only three months old. I almost gave it away.
Q. Why'd you sell it?
A. I got sick of diving, scuba diving and I nearly lost me life through a boating mishap with my other girlfriend. I was down past the South East Cape.
WARREN
Q. Right.
A. And it was just, it was just luck that a fishing boat came along otherwise I wouldn't be here, me girl, me girlfriend wouldn't be, definitely because she didn't have a wetsuit on.
Q. What happened there?
A. The motor actually stopped. Went through one tank of petrol, put the other tank on the hose and one, it was the connection inside the motor had fallen off. I kept on trying to start it, it just wouldn't start, it wasn't until a fishing boat picked us up that actually ... (inaudible) ... such and such was off. And it was ... (inaudible) ... connective something and it was nearly dark and we actually had a couple of flares and that helped alright. That saved us.
PAINE
Q. That would certainly.
A. I would've been dead. I would've had a, ahh my girlfriend would've been dead the next morning.
Q. That would certainly turn off anyone, anyone off boating I'd reckon Martin.
A. Yeah I'll say.
Q. So you're.
A. And I was starting to get cold feet, my feet were starting to freeze up and, I was shaking, my girlfriend was shaking.
WARREN
Q. Weather fairly rough was it or?
A. It wasn't that rough, no, but it was cold, it was cold.
PAINE
Q. How far.
A. It was right up near Hen Island, past South East Cape there, 'cos we launched the boat at Research Bay, went right round there 'cos the weather was good you see and the weather was, we were just coming back, halfway back and it stopped ... (inaudible) ... WARREN
Q. How big was your, your boat?
A. Eleven foot six Zodiac, with a twenty five horsepower Evinrude on it.
Q. Mmm.
A. Brand new it was.
PAINE
Q. Do you go surfing as well?
A. Yeah, surfing.
Q. Do you?
A. Mmm. I've been once.
Q. Where's your favorite spots?
A. I've been once or twice now. Well usually at Roaring Beach.
Q. Ohh. A, I've, I went surfing not so long ago round there.
Q. What was it like?
A. Good.
Q. Be cold this time of year.
A. Mmm.
WARREN
Q. Wear a wetsuit?
A. But I forgot to wax me board up that was the only damn trouble.
PAINE
Q. What difference does that make?
A. It's difficult if you don't wax your board. You can't really stand up on it.
WARREN
Q. You can't get, you can't get a grip.
A. Yeah. I done a bit of bodyboarding instead on it. Mmm.
PAINE
Q. Well do you own a wetsuit?
A. Do I, ohh an old one upstairs but I never use it 'cos it, just take all me clothes off and.
WARREN
Q. Take all your clothes off?
A. And just go in there. I was only in the water for about twenty minutes.
Q. Good God, it'd be freezing.
A. Mmm. The funny thing is, I forgot to take a towel with me so, mmm, I was looking for a towel in the Volvo but I couldn't find one.
WARREN
Q. When, when are you sort of talking about now Martin, when's this latest incident, your surfing? This is the last time you went.
A. Last time I went, yeah.
Q. Right.
A. Mmm. Before I came into the prison.
Q. Have you ever had a wetsuit or?
A. Ever had a wetsuit.
Q. (inaudible)
A. Ohh yes, I've owned wetsuits.
Q. Yeah.
A. Sold my other wetsuit not so long ago, me new wetsuit.
PAINE
Q. Where do you get your money to umm, you know buy things like boats?
A. Where do I get my money from, it was left for me through an estate.
Q. Ohh right, I see.
A. Dad left this money and, yeah, mmm.
Q. Do you handle your money carefully?
A. Pretty carefully, goes pretty quickly. I like spending money.
Q. Do you?
A. Mmm. I'd rather spend it than keep it.
Q. You've certainly spent it on those overseas trips.
A. Yeah, spent a little bit. Unfortunately I couldn't go on any more otherwise I would've gone away in May. I was informed nicely that I wasn't able to go away for a long time, for about twelve months, which upset me greatly.
WARREN
Q. Why's that?
A. 'Cos maybe once or twice a year because I only have to accumulate and, and just couldn't go away on any more trips for a while, but that upset me a lot, yeah.
PAINE
Q. Martin, if you'd excuse me, I'd just like to leave the room for a second.
A. Alright.
Q. If that's okay with you, Mr Warren will be here with you and I'll ... (inaudible) ...
INSPECTOR PAINE LEAVES THE ROOM WARREN
Q. When you say it upset you, what umm
A. Mmm, just threw me back 'cos I didn't have anything to do.
Q. Mmm. Right. Who, who actually told you that? A, I wasn't able to go on a trip probably for six months and that was ohh, the people, Perpetual Trustees, a lady that looks after my money.
Q. Right. Did you have a regular contact with her?
A. Yeah, we phone up whenever I, I needed something to talk about. Ohh, here's me court case is it?
Q. Gees I'll say. Hey Martin, what, sorry I keep going back to these guns. What did you, ahh, you know you said you went a couple of time to practise shooting, where did you go?
A. I used to only go to one spot, between Dunnalley and Eagle Hawk Neck, there's a turnoff there, just past Mundunna there on the left, there's a road, a couple of roads as you just go.
Q. So.
A. To shoot at trees, see if the guns like a.
Q. Just let me get this straight, you go through Dunalley?
A. Yes.
Q. Towards Eagle Hawk Neck?
A. Through Mundunna, so you go past Mundunna, between Mundunna and Eagle Hawk Neck, there's a forestry place there.
Q. Ohh yeah.
A. A couple of roads.
Q. And just turn up to the left and.
A. Used shoot a few tin cans.
Q. Ohh right. Bottles?
A. Bottles, no not bottles 'cos they break and they could injure animals and.
Q. Did you ever make.
A. I never used to shoot the animals.
Q. Sorry about that. Did you ever make your own targets to shoot?
A. I had a couple of targets on boards.
Q. Did you.
A. Cardboard usually.
Q. And how many times would you have shot 'em?
A. Ohh four or five times, then I used to put the gun back in the car and used to leave and go home.
Q. And did you take the targets with you?
A. Yes.
Q. Ohh right.
A. But they were just home-made targets out of cardboard.
Q. Yeah. What did they, what did you draw on them?
A. I used to draw circles.
Q. Circles. And umm, when you practised your shooting, did you, where did you hold the gun?
A. Up like this, on my left.
Q. So you're left-handed?
A. Umm, I write with this hand.
Q. Ohh that's right, sorry, yeah.
A. I, but this is me finger.
Q. So if you held a gun, you would pull the trigger with your, a finger on your left hand?
A. Yeah that's right, yeah.
Q. Ohh right. And aah, did you ever practise shooting from the hip?
A. No never.
Q. Never?
A. Uhh uhh.
Q. Ohh right. And did you get pretty accurate?
A. No not really 'cos like I said I only used that AR15 about twenty rounds in that one and, and not many round, more rounds in the AR10. So, and I, I never got round to using the shotgun because of it ... (inaudible) ... I heard from Terry that it had a bit of power to it.
WARREN
Q. Mmm.
A. So.
PAINE
Q. Just getting back to Terry Hill, where, did you think it was strange that he didn't ask you for a gun licence?
A. Yeah, he never got round to asking me for one, I was gonna let him know though.
Q. Did you think flashing the cash in front of him?
A. Ohh yeah, I was gonna let him know I had one if he asked.
Q. Yeah.
A. Maybe because he knew me when I was that small he knew me and.
Q. So he saw you grow up basically coming into the shop.
A. A couple of times, yeah.
Q. Over several years?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah. Ohh, alright.
A. I s'pose it helps you, when you got the money it helps. People pass things over if you've got the cash.
WARREN
Q. If you've got the cash. What was the set-up when you wanted, wanted cash for something Martin, did ahh, you have to contact someone at the?
A. Ahh, yeah, I used to go intlo the account once every three months for money.
Q. Your accountant?
A. No account, my bank account every three months.
Q. Ohh right.
A. It's managed by Perpetual Trustees.
Q. Right. So you just had to go and see them and ahh, tell them what you wanted the money for?
A. Only see them before the three months, if I've spent that money, had to, I had to live on within three months I would go in and see them.
Q. Mmm.
A. If I needed a, the boat fixed, they help me with the boat or an overseas trip but unfortunately I went through the money a bit too quick and.
PAINE
Q. Did you, have you got a credit card?
A. Never.
Q. Never owned a credit card?
A. No, never.
Q. Ohh, you wanna get one, they're the best things out.
A. Do you reckon I could've gone for extra trips and they wouldn've known?
Q. Ohh well you've eventually got to pay.
A. (inaudible)
Q. The money back but ahh.
A. Ohh would've, would've been more of a benefit for me.
PAINE
Q. Did you have a cheque book?
A. Never. No.
Q. So only ever used cash?
A. I only used cash.
Q. So when you bought the guns from Terry Hill, you paid in cash, was that correct?
A. Yeah, just money in an envelope, I said here's the money Terry. I didn't, didn't bother asking him to count it or not, he just trusted, just trusted each other and passed, passed me over the gun.
Q. Did he ever give you receipts?
A. No, I didn't want any. Never asked for one.
Q. And did, were you ever served by his wife?
A. No, last time I saw his wife was when I was about this high, when I was about sixteen, seventeen.
Q. Ohh right. Ohh.
A. But she's a nice lady, have you met?
Q. No I haven't met her. And what's your favorite drink, you know, with your meals?
A. I like the old can of Guinness.
Q. Guinness?
A. Yeah.
WARREN
Q. There's a man after my own heart.
A. Are you a Guinness man?
Q. I'm a Guinness man, yeah.
A. Where's a can of Guinness, I'd love a can of Guinness.
PAINE
Q. What about wine, like wine or?
A. Yeah wine's good.
Q. Australian wines or?
A. Yeah, Aussie wine, red wine. I can't, don't want to talk about this, alcohol.
Q. Ohh right, we won't.
A. It's getting to me.
Q. Aah. Ahh.
A. Wish you could get me out of this place, or even if you could let me mix outside with the other prisoners, be good.
Q. Do you know why you're here?
A. Know why I'm here, well Inspector Warren was saying in the Royal that I was on one murder count.
WARREN
Q. That's correct.
A. Is that correct.
Q. Mmm.
A. God, I wish that wasn't the case.
PAINE
Q. We all do Martin.
A. Mmm.
Q. We all wish that.
A. There you go.
PAINE
Q. Martin, I'm gonna just get Mr Warren to pick up that ahh, sports bag on the floor and show it to you.
A. It's a nice one isn't it.
Q. It's a very nice bag.
A. Mmm.
Q. Seen that before?
A. No never, never seen that before.
Q. Well I believe you.
A. I've got a couple of sports bags. I've got a rubber black one upstairs at Clare Street I bought ...(inaudible) ...
Q. Well I believe you bought that in Myers or Fitzgeralds or somewhere in town, accompanied with a, a young women earlier this year.
A. Earlier with a young woman, I don't recall buying that.
Q. You sure?
A. No, not at all. If I said that that was mine, I'd say that was mine but.
Q. Ohh.
A. No.
WARREN
Q. have you ever had a bag, a bag like that?
A. Bag like that, I've got a couple of sports bags. I've got a red one, I can't, ohh a bit like that and a blue one, just all blue at home but.
PAINE
Q. Do you recognise the brand name there?
A. No.
Q. It's a Prince brand.
A. Ugh ugh, no.
Q. Because it's funny, you said, did you say you liked playing tennis?
A. Tennis. I haven't played tennis for about 12 months or so with Mum.
Q. Yeah. 'Cos Prince make, principally make tennis equipment, shoes and gear and racquets and.
A. Mmmm.
Q. Did you know that?
A. No I didn't.
Q. Ohh.
A. No.
Q. Thanks Mr Warren.
A. Ohh with my girlfriend you reckon I bought that.
Q. I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. A, You, you said that you think I bought that bag in Myers. You said the.
Q. I said I believe you bought that in Myers or Fitzgeralds in the company of ahh, a young woman, yeah. And you said.
A. No.
Warren:
Q. Do you think you might, you could have done and you just can't remeber or you?
A. No I don't recall having a sports bag, at the last time I bought a sports bag was, like this one I bought in Franklin.
Paine:
Q. Well I'm sorry I honestly believe you bought that bag.
A. Mmm.
Q. Martin. I'm sorry about that.
A. That's alright.
Q. I believe you bought that bag.
A. That's okay. Mmm.
Warren:
Q. Martin ahh, Mr Paine asked you before about you recalling the night you had dinner at your mother's and, what happened that night when you came back home?
A. Oh well I forgot what I had that night for tea at my Mum's but I think we went out to the pictures, I'm not quite sure. But we went out, that's right went out, sat, went out dancing and stuff. Went to the Cadillac Club for a couple of hours because Petra is my girlfriend umm, her cousin usded to go there.
Paine:
Q. Could you speak up Martin, I can't hear, I'm sorry.
A. Ohh we went to the Cadillac Club that night with me girlfriend.
Q. After dinner at Mum's?
A. Mmm. Went back, I think we went back to my place for a while and then went out and umm, but her cousin wasn't there but we spent a few hours there. Then we went to Hadleys, had a drink at Hadleys and left and went home.
Q. What time would you have got home?
A. Ohh must've been about eleven, twelve o'clock that night.
Q. Did you set the alarm clock when you went to bed?
A. Umm, no, never usually set the alarm clock.
Q. What time did you wake up?
A. Ahh about seven, eight o'clock.
Q. What did you do then?
A. We had breakfast like we used to do and then, ohh have, had a shower together. Had breakfast, then I said to Petra, well I'll see you on Monday. She usually goes home on the Sunday a lot, likes to go home to her parents on the Sunday and just, 'cos she doesn't get to see her parents very much.
Q. And what'd you do?
A. I went surfing. It got me surfboard and went surfing.
Q. Did, what time did you leave the house, can you remember?
A. Ahh, must've been about eleven o'clock I reckon.
Q. Eleven o'clock?
A. Yeah, when the sun came up and it got a bit warm. Mmm.
Warren:
Q. And whereabouts did you go mate?
A. Whereabouts did I go, I went round to Roaring Beach, surfing.
Paine:
Q. Do you remember setting the alarm when you left home?
A. No.
Q. Sure?
A. No, definitely not. Ohh right.
A. Last time I set the alarm was when I went away to Melbourne. Mmm.
Q. And did you travel straight to Roaring Beach?
A. I travelled straight to Roaring Beach, yeah.
Q. Stop anywhere on the way?
A. I think I stoped and got a cappuccino, yes, at Sorell. Mmm.
Q. You didn't stop at Midway Point?
A. Midway Point, no.
Q. Get petrol anywhere?
A. Get petrol, no, didn't need to get petrol. 'Cos I got some petrol a couple of days beforehand. Filled up the tank and, mmm.
Q. Buy any tomato sauce on the way down?
A. No, no tomato sauce.
Q. Ohh.
A. Why would I want tomato sauce for.
Q. Well I don't know.
A. Things, funny things. I only, I only as you know the things I know, apart from that, that's all I can let you know. Mmm.
Q. Do you know.
A. If I can help anymore.
Q. Do you know David and Sally Martin?
A. Ohh, yeah, I knew them well.
Q. You knew them well?
A. When I was about, when I was about that high.
Q. When did you last see them?
A. I saw them I reckon back in 1991 when I saw them in town. No it wasn't, they were going to Calvary Hospital to visit some friends.
Q. I don't believe that.
A. Calvary Hospital to visit friends.
Q. I don't believe that.
A. Why?
Q. I believe.
A. I went down, I went to their, their house on the Sunday but they weren't home. You said last time you saw, saw them. You didn't say, did you go and see them? I went down to see them but they weren't there.
Q. Ohh sorry. Ive got confused.
A. You got them confused, ohh. Yeah I knocked on the door and there was no one at the guest house.
Warren:
Q. And that's on the Sunday you went surfing?
A. Yes. 'Cos I went down 'cos apparently over the years they were renovating the guest house and I thought I'll call in and see them and have a chat to them.
Paine:
Q. So what you're saying is you wouldn't have ever spoken to them for some years?
A. Yeah, that's right. Would've been good to have seen them but there was no answer at the door.
Q. What about ahh, the ahh Martin boys, have you seen them recently?
A. Yes, I was with me girlfriend, must've been ahh, eight months ago. We were over at Eastlands doing a bit if shopping and Glen, Glen Martin, that's one of the sons, we went back and had a, I think it was a cappucinno, ice coffee that day at the cafeteria.
Q. Did you talk to.
A. Sorry I can't talk very well 'cos we I haven't had a drink or anything to eat today and I'm a bit worked up.
Paine:
Q. Would you like a drink of water or something?
A. Yeah or a cup of tea would be nice.
Q. I'll see if I can arrange it.
A. Alright, thanks. Then I'll be up like this talking to yous. Yeah, what a lovely place at the Martins.
INSPECTOR PAINE LEAVES THE ROOM.